Presence

Apparently Dougies was open yesterday as well at the Eitz Chaim Centers parking lot, however it was open "by invitation only". I was not part of the exclusive group of invitees. I guess I am not good enough for Dougies opening day.

Based on that experience, I do not plan to rush to patronize Dougies. I will eventually, but no rush.

Josh

I have heard a rumor that they were not able to secure a permit for downtown.
If this is true, I'm devistated!
Has anyone heard anything regarding this?

In NY the burgers start at 8.95. And the Fire Slammers are $12.95.

what time are they closing tonight?
What is the phone?

Apparently they are only open for a few hours for lunch and are just parked on the corner there to tease you. I stopped by to check it out and before I even grabbed a menu I was told "we are closed and will reopen for dinner at 5:15" Meanwhile the guy is taking some of his friend's orders... I am definately in agreement with Josh. For a new establishment they should not be actively turning people off.

I wonder if we're going to see a showdown between the fruit vendor and the dougies guys over who gets to sell in that spot. Could make for some intersesting action.

I am just laughing that they are parked at the corner of Greenspring and Willow Glen.

As I drove through the light at Willow Glen and Greenspring heading in the direction of Shoppers, etc., a car stopped to check out the Dougie's scene. I mean stopped abruptly in front of me in the middle of the road and I had to slam on the brakes. Traffic hazard, at least for bad Baltimore drivers.

Enforcer beat me to it. Those are way better prices than here...

Enforcer beat me to it. Those are way better prices than here...

The price I quoted was for a half-order of Slammers; a full order was $12.50.

Jewboy: I'm wondering how long it will be before a) there is a major accident there and b) the neighbors (i.e. the non-frum) start to complain. I give it a week on both.

If you find any type of schedule in the future, please let us know. I'd come up from the DC area occasionally if they have the beef ribs, and I know where I can find the truck. No sense in driving up for a while goose chase though.

Forget the non-Jews, I was tempted to call in about it this evening when little frummeles were darting across Willowglen. What a horrible spot for a place that hopes to attract a lot of customers. And, there are certainly halachic issues involved with them taking over Alpert's Country Market's spot. Now that's just wrong.

I saw many more people waiting for their orders then waiting in line. One guy wanted his money back because he did not hear it would take so long to wait and they would not credit him and offered him instead a free next order. He was not happy. Took me 40 minutes. I went home and came back. They were almost immediately a constant 10 plus orders behind which gauranteed a minimum of 30 to 40 minute wait. People won't stand - no pun intended - for that long a wait and only for 10 orders behind. They simply cannot push out multiple orders in such a small kitchen. It is a fundamentally flawed concept. They better reduce their menu options so they can get more out more quickly or they will lose this venture quickly. No ribs or popers on the menu either. Hope they make it but I doubt it. I will come back for sweet potato chips but only if I am the first in line. Not worth waiting a half hour or more.

Schmuly: I agree that will be an issue. I had assumed that all the food would be pre-cooked and simply heated on the spot; while I'm happy that's not the case, it does raise concerns of efficiency. My order didn't take long, but it was simple; others who ordered before me were waiting longer. Maybe if they gave out free sweet potato chips? ;)

Spoke to them last night.

The truck will be at Woodholme Elementary School on Mt. Wilson Lane this evening.

Still working on a downtown location

Do they have a full-time mashgiach on site? That must be difficult in a small truck. If they do not, I would seriously question whether or not we should trust the veracity of their kashrut.

By full time, of course, I mean during business hours and during hours when the truck is not open and serving food.

Anything can happen on a truck, especially one that is out of the public's view and closed for business for hours on end. And if this truck will indeed be traveling from Security to downtown, I don't know how we can trust that whomever is driving the truck or working on the truck is not stopping and picking up food for personal consumption or otherwise at triefe restaurants. (Could you imagine the shanda of seeing a Dougie's truck at a McDonald's drive through. I shudder to think...)

I am of course not saying this will happen, nor am I saying that whomever is operating the truck is a shaygitz. Far me it from me to say over such lashon harah about another yid or non-yid.

But all we know so far is that this franchise if from out of town, strangers to the Baltimore frum community much like Miracle Market was back in the day (We can only say baruch hashem that the frum establishment had the foresight to thankfully close down that establishment because it was owned by Jews who might have been mechalel shabbos.)

We also know that despite that this Dougie's mobile has no rent or overhead aside from a truck lease, the owners are still charging the same prices they charge in New York and New Jersey, where rent alone is outrageous. This is clearly a business that is more concerned with profit margin than it is with ethics. Not that I am trying to imply than any of these people would be a chazer, but we should be careful.

Thirdly. It is a truck and is therefor subject to being broken into very easily at night when no one is in the truck -- especially in this neighborhood. We have no idea what kind of vagrant could break into the truck, searching for food or money and how they might defile and treife up a kosher kitchen. Perhaps there should be an overnight mashgiach as well.

Has anyone consulted Rabbi Frand about any of this?

That last post has to be a joke. It must be.

Kashrut is no joke.

Dude, JB is WAAY off on ANY of his facts. Get a clue. #1) While you're already talking about the shanda that might be if you saw the truck at MickyD's, how do you know that the driver is not also the mashgiach? #2) The owner is a frum local guy, not "strangers to the Baltimore frum community" - Get your facts straight. #3)You must be pretty new to B-More. Miracle Market and other supermarkets / local establishments in Baltimore that tried to compete with other established businesses were also owned by frum jews. Some may have been a little more/less modern than what you're used to, nonetheless, you did a great job at categorizing marginalizing a very large part of our diverse frum community. #4) Where did R'Frand come into this? Does he currently give a Hashgacha on ANYTHING in Baltimore?

Nor are learning and avoiding gashmiut jokes.

Again, I would wonder what Rabbi Frand would have to say about what the scene will most likely be like to night when the Dougie's mobile is parked at Woodholme Elementary School, near Near Israel.

How many yeshiva bachurim will be standing on line for an hour or two hours just so they can eat a pastrami burger or hot wings? Couldn't that time be better spent learning? Isn't this what we pay our Kolel students for? To learn?

Or perhaps, the two hours could be better spent performing mitzvot, showing that they have learned something about the perfection of the world through the following of God's commandments?

And what of the money? $13.00 for some chicken and grease? $11 for a patty of fried beef? That could feed a whole family in need -- of which there are plenty in Baltimore.

I ask you, is tasty flesh worth bitul Torah and the ignoring of the poor?

What would Moshe feel if he look down form Har Sinai and saw yiddin' behaving this way?

1) Josh and Mo-Last night was a trial run. They are not officially opening until next week. This is likely why they were closed for a period of time but still accepting orders from some people.
2) Schmuly- They do have ribs and poppers. Poppers are now called fire slammers. That was a change made in the NY dougies.
3) JB- They are all from Baltimore. They are not from NY.
4) Alanlaz- It appears that the guy who runs the farmers market was happy with the Dougies mobile. If anything it will give him more business. People who are stopping for Dougies might buy some apples now. I don’t think there is anyone who was planning to buy corn from this guy but now won’t because they are buying a pastrami burger instead.
5) JB- Why is a truck easier to break into than a restaurant? Why aren’t we worried that people are breaking into Kosher Bite and eating McDonalds in the schwarma station?
6) Schmuly- They explained that they were two employees short last night, as they had not “really opened.” I assume that they will be much quicker when they are fully staffed. Also, I assume that they will take orders by phone which will help with the time issue.

@dovi

My personal opinion is that the dougies truck is an eye sore in a residential area, not to mention a danger to traffic and that if I lived in the greenspring area I would be pretty upset.

It would be nice if the dougie's truck would somehow communicate with the community to let us know the locations and hours of operations.

@JB:

If you don't like the prices, don't frequent the truck, and the same goes for the rest of the baltimore residents. The market will tell us if the prices are too expensive.

W Moon,

I agree that the location is a traffic hazard and I would not be surprised if neighbors began complaining. That intersection is busy as it is. I actually walked there last night.

My understanding is that they will communicate their schedule to the community once they officially open. As I said, last night was a trial run.

Dovi:

Would you rather be Charedi or mock Hakadosh Baruch Hu's word as interpreted by the rebbayim?

But "They" Dougie's is a New York franchise. Either way, "they" who run the truck. I would be curious to know what shul "they" go to and how often they go. These are the standards that the rebayim, interpreting the word of The H-ly O-e Bl-ssed i- H-, as passed down to man through his emissary Moshe, not my own. These people are serving us food that will become part of our bodies. I know rebbayim in town who refuse to eat at the homes of their congregants because they fear the standards of Kashrut in their well-meaning congregants' homes. These Dougie's peopel are purveying us food at a profit -- for their benefit and not ours, and we must be, MUST be, vigilant. This is the word of Go-.

As for your second point. Yes, perhaps you are right. Perhaps we should have someone in Kosher Bite 24 hours a day and in allof the restaurants.

Does anyone know who has full time Mashgichim in the area? And if it is not all of the restaurants, both dairy and fleishig, do we know who has only part time, and why?

We need to know that all of these people fear -od to the extent that feeding a yid something only mildly treif even by accident would tear out their hearts and pain their souls to the extent that they would willingly close their restaurants out of fear of G-d and shame in front of their fellow men.

OK JB. You are no longer funny.

Looks like we have a new Nircgrad. So many good lines right now; can't believe I'm holding them all in.

Dovi:

I repeat. Kashrut is not a joke.

Well it’s a good thing you are bringing these issues to our attention as Rabbi Frand has publicly declared that he is planning an investigation of all the bakeries and restaraunts in Baltimore to ensure that their kashrus standards are up to par. I think Rabbi Frand understands that kashrus is no laughing matter. If you call him, I’m sure he will put Dougies on the top of this “inspection” list.

Dave Green:

Rabbi Frand is the Moshgiach of our community. He could and would shut down an institution by telling his congregants not to shop there.

Dovi:

If you really think that I should call him, I will. Do you have a number for him, or should I go through the shul office?

@dovi

No self-respecting Yeshivish hocker would refer to it as "Kashrut." The jig is up.

If you had been at his teshuva drasha this year, you would know that he asked for all community members to contact him at his house between 8 and 11:30 PM with any restaurant kashrus concerns.

JB is a raving lunatic.

Alanlaz - you seem to have some issues with the yeshiva world. You used the term "frummeles" degradingly and felt that the JB nut is a "Nircgrad." If anything, NIRC is open-minded and modern in the yeshiva world, they don't produce nuts like this. And if so, he's the exception.

And now for my generalization - JB sounds more like a BT.

Hello All!

JB is messing around with you! He is saying ridiculous things to get you all riled up! That is all.

Greg hasn't had a molester topic in a while. Nu?

says W Moon, "No self-respecting Yeshivish hocker would refer to it as 'Kashrut'." Are there no sefardic yeshiva bochers at Ner? Kashrus to Shloime Mendelovich is Kashrut to Ovadia Amsalem

@JB Fan aka JB

Not after the brainwashing kicks in.

to Warren Moon: Daven there on Yom Kippur and you'll see no brainwashing there. some piyutim are even done in Persian

Ah! Piyutim in Persian you say? And did you have a similar reaction when "Kosher Bite on Wheels" was in business?

Has anyone ever spotted the KB Bus anywhere other than where it is parked in the lot behind Tov's/KB?

So far I have been called a lunatic, a nut, I think I was derided for using the proper Hebrew pronunciation of Kashrut as opposed to the pronunciation of a dead language, and someone has insinuated that I made up an alias name JB Fan to praise myself, or to put it simply, someone called me a fraud.

This is how you treat someone who is trying to make sure that the community is eating from a kosher source?

I think I only have on question for right now:

Dovi. Please redeem yourself and be a mensch. You seem to know an awful lot about the Dougie's mobile. i.e. who runs it, where they are from, where the truck will be parked and when. And you also seem to take it personally when I suggest that we be careful with it -- as we should be careful with all of our kosher institutions. (Again. Never have I suggested that the truck is treif, just that we should be careful. We should build a fence around it lest we eat treif and lest our children see us eating treif, which would do untold harm to uor future generations.)

I think that for the sake of the emmet (or as you would say it the emmes)you should come clean about who you are and what is your connection to the people who run the Dougie's truck.

Are you a friend or a relative? Do you belong to the same shul? Are you an investor, perhaps? Or event THE investor? What is your vested interest in protecting the Dougie's mobile from what has not even been an attack?

And your slights against Sefardim are reprehensible. This is no way to treat a fellow man, more or less a fellow Jew.

Guys: Don't feed the trolls. If you don't feed them, they will starve and eventually die.

And now I have been called a troll. Nice. Really nice guys.

I fear for our people upon the final redemption.

You came on this blog and started spouting lashon hara about people and things you know nothing about. How did you think people were going to respond?

F*** you Greg. Just F*** you.

Stan- just to clarify, Nircgrad was a former poster to many of the local blogs who often times liked to "stir things up" (to put it mildly). I dont' think alanlaz was generalizing this JB guy as a graduate of Ner Israel Rabinical College.

Can someone please expalin to me how greg's blog posting about dougies has led to this. Something is serioulsy wrong when this topic causes all kinds of nasty comments directed at one another, aonly to be topped off by a "gutter like" cursing out of somebody. I assume everybody posting here are adults.......then again maybe I am wrong.

Popper Fan- I guess Dougies just brings out the worst in people. I now understand why Rabbi Frand has always told his "congregants" not to eat at Dougies.

Well, well. Who knew this post would create so much turmoil? I just want to clarify that I am not JB. Furthermore, JB crossed the line with his last comment. But I feel like his whole thing here is a big joke.

As I said before, I do feel that the location yesterday was a bit hazardous. It's hard enough to deal with the horrible drivers around this neighborhood without having a Dougie's around.

You are right Popper Fan. I am sorry. I lost my cool I just couldn't handle all of the insults and let loose.

Greg. I apologize to you personally. That F-bomb wasn't really directed at you. The first one or the second one.

I hope you can forgive me.
Please forgive me.
Please forgive me.
Please forgive me.

I just feel ganged up on by a bunch of landsmen, as you would call them.

Kashrut is holy, separate, and must be kept that way. And I get a little zealous sometimes.

And using f-bombs to curse people out anonymously is also really holy. Perhaps a little zealousness toward yourself is in order.

But two things you should know before i head off to daven mincha:

Popper fan. You seem fairly level headed, which is why I am doing this favor for you. A "Popper" is slang for the drug amyl nitrite, which during the 70s and until today has been quite popular with the gay male community. It causes something of a rush and is said to increase sexual pleasure during male on male coitus. So, yeah. You might want to reconsider the name "Popper Fan." (And as a suggestion if you want to stay with the Dougie's theme, avoid the name "loves footlongs.")

And Dovi. I don't like calling names because we are ---'s creations and created in Her/His/Its image. But if I was going to suggest which part of G--'s anthropomorphic body you were modeled after, it would be His/Her/Its ---hole.

I hope your friend does reeal well in business.

I like your assertiveness JB. You got real spunk. You sound like the kind of guy we need working at my "Dougies on Wheels." If you are interested, Rabbi Frand is accepting resumes for me. Just drop it off at his house between 8:30 and 11 PM.

I've posted out-and-out kefira on this blog before, but when I write about a kosher meat wagon, everyone comes out in full battle regalia. I thought kosher foodstuffs was a safety zone for me. Oh well.

For this should I consider coming back to Bawlmore, Hon?

Thank you Peninah.

I believe there is too much Yeshivish bashing in the Baltimore blogosphere. And the leshoynos on this blog is beyond me. I agree with JB that there is no way that such an establishment can be Kosher. Bring back the Kosher Bite Bus and Leibes Thursday nights!

Ummm...just wanted to go back to the earlier posts and make a few points:

1) The reason the pre-opening night at Etz Chaim was "invitation only" is that they weren't charging for the food. It was a dry run where they called a few friends to try to work through the process for the very first time and donations were taken for Etz Chaim.

2) The kashrut is Star-K. Seems like any questions about it could be directed to Rabbi H.

Most new restaurants need at least a few weeks to get on their feet unless they are truly a "cookie cutter" operation that sends someone down from corporate with tried and true operational processes. This isn't the case with Dougie's on the Run -- they've got to figure it out themselves, so I would expect it to be rough going for a little while.

Personally, my husband and I wish Aaron and family all the best in their new venture!

P.S. The wings were really good!!

Dovi, I'm not sure where you got your information. When I showed up at Rabbi Frand's 20 minutes ago at 10:55, they knew nothing of these application forms and I was abruptly escorted off the Ner Israel premises.

OK, it’s time to come clean.

I actually am the owner of the “Dougies on the Run” truck. It’s a long story but JB was to be my star employee.

It all goes back to the winter of 03. I found him sitting on a curb in front of Lexington Market, huddled under a blanket. He was nibbling on a Tov Pizza crust, listening to a shiur from Rabbi Frand on a dirty, old boombox. I was with the Peace Corps at the time and had just returned from spending a year in Micronesia. I wanted to do some good in the world and saw JB as my chance.

I took him back to my apartment and gave him a place to sleep and some food to eat. A day turned into a week which turned into a month and pretty soon, JB was my roommate.

I really don’t know how to describe it but there was just something about the kid that told me he was destined for great things and that he had just been dealt a rough hand in life. I was hopeful that if he stuck around long enough, I would get a chance to see it.

It happened one night while JB was grilling burgers on our outdoor porch. As we talked about our respective days, I happened to observe the boys flipping technique. It was textbook, so pure and magical. I had never seen a more natural “burger flipper” in my entire life. I decided to make him my project and devoted all my time to teaching him everything I knew about the fine art of burger flipping.

He was a quick study and before long he was flipping burgers like he had been doing it his whole life. He had turned burger flipping into a beautiful art form. People traveled all the way from Cockeysville and Glen Burnie to watch him flip. He was asked to perform at the Hippodrome. The Baltimore Sun called him “The Best Flipper this side of the Potomac.” Life was looking up and together we decided to open a traveling Dougies in the Baltimore area. With my business sense and his showmanship, it wouldn’t be long before we were rich and famous. We bought the truck, worked out the deal with the NY Dougies, and were on our way. Life was great back then. And then it all went downhill.

The fame got to his head fast and pretty soon, he was hanging out with some of the delinquent flippers from places like Sizzler, T.G.I. Fridays and Chili’s. These kids started putting ideas in his head and pretty soon he was coming late to grilling performances, letting the burgers get too well done, etc. I threatened him that if he didn’t clean up his act, I would open Dougies without him. He responded with verbal insults, constantly insisting that it was he who was the talent and that I need him, not the other way around. One night, I walked in on him eating a happy meal in the truck and had to let him go. It was the hardest thing I’d ever done. I haven’t had a decent night of sleep since the incident.

JB, if you’re reading this, please come back to me. You’re right, I do need you. I know you are only saying these hurtful things because you think you are the only one in pain. Well bud, you’re not. Dougies on the Run just won’t be the same without you. Let’s try to give it another shot. For old times sake.

Greg

It looks like fire poppers get more attention and foul language than the intellectual stuff you post (less "Presence" of mind and more presence of food). This may be you highest-commented post of all time.

Just thing if the kids' lemonade stand moves from across the street, we'd have a strip mall with Dougie's, Alpert's produce, and cold drinks--one stop shopping!

Where is there a mincha minyan around 3:17 in Baltimore???

qsman: Best bet is the Agudah of Park Heights.

Dr. E.: who owns that land? Abie? Willow Brook? Could be valuable real estate.

According to sdatcert3.resiusa.org/rp_rewrite/, 6314 through 6320 Greenspring is owned by Willow Brook. There are no addresses on that side of willow brook, and then next greenspring address is in Balt County. How is that for investigative work? You want to see if they will sell it to us? Sounds like a great business venture. Or maybe Rabbi Bergers Shul can buy it. Josh

The Gutman twins recently purchased the land from Willowbrook and have plans to build a rodeo stadium in that space.

The exchange that took place about a seemingly mundane issue like a food truck, is embaressing to Baltimore; I say that because I assume most of the people who posted live here.

Greg, have you considered taking down the gutter language tirade? please do not assume that this is not being seen by a wider audience? Just yesterday, my boss told me he had stumbled across a blog thread from last summer dealing with an abuse situation. He was amazed by the vitriolic and bitter exchanges.

Honestly, I doubt anyone in that neighborhood wants big business ventures across street from them. Selling flowers/apples is one thing, but a restaurant is another. I don't think they'll be allowed to stay there. Do they even have a permit? Who is this JB guy/girl and why does he/she have to ruin an otherwise interesting conversation?

I don't have any idea what Popper Fan is talking about - nothing like this "embarrases Baltimore." I don't think anyone's concerned about the ramblings of a bunch of anonymous people on some anonymous blog. (sorry, guy who writes the blog!)

to Stan:
It is apparent to most of us on this thread that JB didn't ruin an interesting conversation but rather infused it with some interesting questions and comments. Where's the evidence? count the responses and compare to the othe threads--and the time Dovi took to write his short story last night.

It doesn't take long to write when it's coming from the heart.

Over shabbos, I heard that on Thursday, the cops told Dougies that they had to move their truck as it was creating a traffic hazard.

I don't know about JB or his followers, but I was under the impression that the kashrus authority in Baltimore is R' Heinnemann, who runs Star-K, not R' Frand, who certifies nothing, as far as I'm aware. Not to mention that R' H the _posek_ here, not R' Frand. If R' H says one thing and R' Frand says another, you should be deferring to R' H by any standards I'm aware of. Not that R' Frand would ever call out R' H in public - what the heck are you thinking?

I suspect JB and JB fan are really good trolls, but I suppose they could also be just the stereotypical scaredy-cat NIRC grads who won't even slap their names onto their lashon hara and motzei shem ra, and just send anonymous letters to the WWW to do their dirty work.

So, I'm curious - who are you?

Oh, a quick follow-up: when I say "stereotypical", I mean it in the "most NIRC grads aren't like that; just a few who give the good ones a bad name". Sorry for mis-communicating.

This is one of the greatest threads the jewish blogosphere has ever seen. Thank you to all those involved for the phenomenal entertainment. Nice work.

I am thrilled to see how fondly I am remembered by some.

If Dougie's wants to park on a random piece of grass, they better make sure there is enough parking for all of their "dry run" friends... If I had made a right turn onto Greenspring into of a left, I would have absolutely rear-ended someone and believe me, I didn't have protection.

You should really consider car insurance, Yoseph.

To all who have posted and expressed feelings both positive and negative we sincerely appreciate your patience and feedback. As we continue to develop this new business model we will try to improve operations and communicate as clearly as possible. I am the owner of Dougie's on the Run and did want to respond to a few items in the blog.

- We have heard the concerns regarding the safety at the Greenspring and Willowglen location. We also see the danger and have stopped using that location despite how busy it was. We hope to find a safer and more suitable location. Thank you to all who expressed their concerns.

- We absolutely have a masgiach on board at all times. The truck has a locking door between the cab and the kitchen that the mashgiach holds the key to. We have spent a lot of money on securing the truck with a state of the art alarm system that will notify us of a breach even if we are not within earshot of the truck at the time. We have worked closely with the Star-K to develop this concept. Our intentions have always been to provide quality kosher food for the community especially in places where none is currently available.

- Although we do not have New York rents we have many costs that are substantially higher than a traditional restaurant. Our insurance, fuel, and licensing costs are understandably higher than other establishments. Our food, labor, advertising, etc. are just as high as any other restaurant. We have tried to keep our prices competitive for the area.

- We did speak with the gentleman who runs the farmers market prior to setting up in that location. He was thrilled to have us and is saddened that we will no longer be using that location. According to him our presence increased his sales.

- Finally, I would like to once again thank all of those who have expressed feelings both good and bad about our venture. I think the debate is healthy and can only make us better. I would however like to mention that our desire is to be good neighbors, good Jews, and good and honest businessmen. I am happy to address any genuine concerns that do not attack our character, integrity, or level of observance which quite frankly have no basis. Our email address is dougiesontherun@yahoo.com.