Presence

This is a shame.

I will attend a secular dinner which is not kosher if they provide a kosher meal for me or maybe even go and not eat -- a fundraiser for a civic organization or something like that.

But I won't go to a Jewish organizational dinner if it isn't kosher. A Jewish organization shouldn't make observant Jews eat TV dinners while everyone else is happily munching away on treif.

The one quibble I have is that the Jewish Week identified Metro-K as "non-Orthodox." It isn't. I know that most Orthodox folks don't accept it and most of the certification he gives is in Conservative shuls but the rabbi who runs it is in fact Orthodox.

Charles, it doesn't matter if the rabbi is orthodox, if his policies are against standard orthodox practice, even if very defensible from a halachic point of view, it's not an orthodox hasgacha.

I don't know any details of this (it seems to be a rather new hasgacha, back in my day in silver spring the only bitter kashrut issue was with MA(R)OR. Does MAOR even still exist?

This is a real shame. I'm tempted to write a nasty letter to the JCC about it.

Tells you a lot about the communities, though - the JCC in the Baltimore thinks about opening on Shabbos, and there's a huge protest. The DC JCC actually serves traife, and no one bats an eyebrow.

DMZ, how many frum jews live in DC? There's kesher and ohev shalom, and ohev shalom while perhaps growing a bit recently hasn't been much in recent years. the baltimore jcc, on the other hand, is located right in the heart of the baltimore frum community.

But one can say, the same spirit that says protest the JCC is the same spirit that causes certain people to walk out of shul when they say the tefilla for the medina.

SP,

In common parlance "non-Orthodox" is a way of referring to the other movements in Judaism -- Conservative, Reform, etc.

I recognize that Rabbi Schachter's hechsher is not accepted in the general Orthodox community. When I worked for an interfaith think tank in Baltimore, a number of our events were catered by a Metro-K certified caterer. The Orthodox rabbi on our board wouldn't eat -- he didn't protest or complain, he just didn't eat.

As I see it a "non-Orthodox" certification is granted by a non-Orthodox rabbi. When I was mashgiach for Posin's bakery under the Rabbinical Assembly, that was a non-Orthodox hechsher. When I certified Catered Living of Pikesville as Rav HaMachshir, that was a non-Orthodox hechsher.

Metro-K isn't a non-Orthodox hechsher. It's an Orthodox hechsher that is not widely accepted in the Orthodox community. I'm not arguing that Orthodox people should eat by it just because the Rav HaMachshir is Orthodox, I just think it's bad terminology to call it a non-Orthodox hechsher.

Charles. You're mistaken.

What does the person giving the hasgacha have anything to do with the "status" of the hasgacha.

A hasgacha is classified by 2 things.

a) it's policy
b) it's reliability to enforce that policy.

If people don't eat at Metro-K there are 3 possible reasons.

1) politics
2) non normative orthodox policy
3) "normative" policy, but not considered to enforce it reliabily.

The only way I'd consider a hasgacha that is not used by most to be "orthodox" if the reason is just #1.

SP:

Whatever.