March 4, 2007
Drinking on Purim
R. Gottlieb (and, from what I've heard, other rabbonim as well) came down hard on drinking on Purim. Apparently alcohol abuse is on the rise in the community, and many kids who get tangled up in drugs get the first taste on Purim. I've heard many were upset with what the rabbis were saying (our minyan was all abuzz well after the rabbi's speech), which I think is a good thing. If a rabbi never upsets anyone, he's probably not doing his job.
I had what I thought to be a symbolic explanation for drinking on Purim, but it was based on the existence of a statement I can not find. I had thought that somewhere there was a statement that the extent to which one must become inebriated was formulated in terms of, "until unable to to tell the difference between good and bad." Stranger yet, I specifically remember this being in Aramaic (bein tav l'bish). But I am unable to find this formulation anywhere. I am aware of the formulation in the Talmud Megillah 7b. If anyone knows the source of my perceived formulation, please let me know, I would be much obliged.
I don't think he was coming down hard just on purim drinking. I think he was referring to drinking in general.
Posted by: aishel at March 5, 2007 10:27 AMWhy is it so difficult to say that underage (under 18, not Libby Dole's ridiculous 21) should not be given any alcohol?
Posted by: yehupitz at March 5, 2007 10:32 AMI guess because kids are impressionable and when they see figures of authority and respect getting drunk, it creates a draw for them to try it.
Posted by: Greg at March 5, 2007 10:55 AMSee the Yad Ephraim on the page of the Shulchan Aruch ("ad d'lo yadah")...ad v'lo ad bichlal.
Part of his point had someting to do with the tone of Purim having evolved down the toilet. If the issue was just drinking wine, on Purim, at the seudah (and maybe a bit too much of it), that would be one thing. However, over the past couple of generations or so, Purim is merely used as an acceptable excuse (especially among b'nei Yeshiva) to engage in an array of risky behaviors including: drinking and driving, underage drinking, driving recklessly when delivering Shalach manos, smoking. They do this as if Purim provides some mystical shmira that will protect them from any danger.
But, any keen observer realizes that Purim is being manipulated more than it is being celebrated. You see many of the same kids (and adults) drinking and smoking on Simchas Torah, Shavuos, at weddings, etc. These are people who are in some way unhappy with their (unexciting and often troubled) lives and turn towards artificial ways of making themselves more interesting and socially desirable. I don't think that this is a problem that is unique to the frum community here. But, perhaps it is here that there is the best chance of some sort of unified effort among the Rabbanim to do something about it. (in other communities, "unified" paired with "Orthodox" is an oxymoron)
Posted by: Dr. E at March 5, 2007 2:14 PMRabbi Berger also spoke about the "excessive amount of liquor and beer and Shalm Zachors ".He said 10 years ago there used to be a token bottle of Liquor and some beer .Alcohol Consumption has increased tremendously in the last 10 years and encourages all Baal Simchas to take charge of this matter .
Posted by: Realist at March 5, 2007 5:50 PMTake a look at the Maharsha there in Megilla (7B) who says that the issue is to get to the point where the kasha of tzaddik vera lo doesn't exist - IE, you can't tell the difference between complete tov and complete ra - perhaps that's what you remember?
As well, the mishna berura, magen avraham, chayei adam, and others all make a point to say things to the effect of "if drinking makes you miss netillas yadaim, hamotzei, benching, tefilla, or any other mitzvah - it's better not to touch any alcohol at all".
If you look in the sifrei HaGraMak you'll find much ado about people who use Purim as a 'heter' to be stupid. He also says "The pasuk says 'HaShomer Pesaim Hashem' - but who says you're zoche to be a Pesi?"
Kol HaKavod to the Rabbanim for standing (together) up against this terrible sickness which is creeping quickly into our community.
Meanwhile - I'll tell you how my Purim was just as soon as I get my pictures developed. My friends tell me I had a good time, if that's any indication...
Posted by: Chareidi Fanatic at March 6, 2007 3:27 AM