Presence

While I am not really disagreeing with your points, or with Rambam's attempt, I find it hard to believe that people would randomly choose Baltimore as a place to live. And that is not as a knock to Baltimore! I love Baltimore and think it is definitely a viable alternative to living in the NY-NJ area (OK, full disclaimer, I grew up there my whole life) but I can't imagine people living in NY-NJ uprooting their jobs and lives and moving to Baltimore because of a YU school and some restaurants, even if they can't really afford to live up here.

I am VERY curious to see what happens. Hope you will keep us posted, Greg.

Sara- I think they are targeting the younger couples who haven't necessarily settled down permanenetly yet (which is why they are doing it at the apartments I am assuming). A lot of those couples are probably still in YU/Stern/graduate school anyway so they wouldn't be uprooting their jobs.

Hmmm...i wonder if this was thought up by Rambam or Remax?

Nabozny is out to make a buck in today's slow market.No other reason.

Housing is not expensive enough I guess, now all the out-of-towners will come and continue to raise housing prices while native Baltimoreans wind up buying Amish portable sheds to live in.

How about that property tax hike?

Wise up. Rabbi Lubetski and Rabbi Wagner have far too many important things to do with their little time then to sell homes for remax.

lets be honest here.

Nabozny is probably a big donor to Rambam, he says you guys do this for me I'll give Rambam a cut of the commissions I make on these sales, and like good servile rabbis they go ahead and do it for him.

That was my cynical side.

Alternatively Rambam has realized that they don't have a large enough parent body and they need to attract young couples and change the perception of Baltimore as a black hat community.

Tou certainly are cynical.

"change the perception of Baltimore as a black hat community"

Rabbi Lubetski and Rabbi Wagner both wear black hats. Last I checked so do Rabbi Gottlieb and Rabbi Silber.

Better stated if you said that "to help educate an intense and large Baltimore Orthodox community about a school that is so closely aligned with a Yeshiva University where both are so misunderstood and sometimes misrepresented"

Not about a black hat or a kippah siruga but what is under both. That is one hard concept for this community to grasp.

while NY certainly has more job oppurtunities and other jewish amenitites, i can't think of another city in the US that has the combination of a nice place to live, decent schools, decently affordable housing, pretty good eateries and other jewish amenitites (seforim store, mikva, etc.). Plus the job oppurtunities are pretty good and very good if you include silver spring/washginton. (note: in NY if you work in the city, your commute is going to be 35-40 minutes, minimum! so driving to SS isn't so outrageous).

In NY if you want to live in a decent community (are there any) good luck finding cheap housing. minimum houses around here go for starting at 550. or 450 if you literally want to live in a shoebox in queens. young couples really can't afford it unless one of the spouses is extrmely successful in his/her field.

b/c i don't have greg's email-

http://www.forward.com/articles/ou-leader-being-pushed-out/

savitsky is always up to no good. i could go on forever

Nicely re-interpreted, chaim.

Would this not be a conflict of interest - an academic institution utilizing a real estate agent to promote people moving down to Baltimore? Shouldn't the school be primarily emphasizing their excellent academic credentials and curriculum to woo families? The community can sell itself, as evidenced by the many out-of-towners that have moved here over the past years.

Just my thoughts

How can you call it a conflict when school professional business parent volunteers work together with their schools that benefit one another. It goes on all the time with catering, etc... One should help those that help them. This goes on in all schools and should be encouraged.what a wonderful thing to see happen.

woah - i am sensing alot of hostility (mostly at Barry Nabozny) i know for a fact (Rabbi Lubetsky at Yossi's party) this was Rambam's idea of increasing the student body and attracting "outsiders" b/c families in baltimore still have a hard time admitting that Rambam is an option for "Frum" families. also, it is def. directed at the young famillies that are not settled in yet and I think its a great idea. although, it will def. help Barry he is not the only realtor in the frum community and hopefully housing prices wont go up anymore cuz the houses are just sitting around right now. ok, enough said.

Oy vey. This is absolutely pathetic and I am utterly embarrassed to be connected to that school in any way. While I think it is nice to be recruiting, I find it hard to imagine anyone being convinced to come from a real estate agent and principal of a tiny little school, both of whom haven't yet been in the community for 2 years. Whatever.

Wow. This is quite a comment. It is one thing to wonder why prospective parents in another community would come to Baltimore, which is understandable, but quite a leap to say that leads you to be "embarrassed to be associated with your school and call it pathetic". I sense sevenfor16 might do his school a big favor to check out one of the other wonderful school options in town. I am just not so certain any of them might want him with his attitudes.

Rabbi Lubetski and Rabbi Wagner are quite well known and highly respected in the YU community in the country. The fact they have been in Baltimore for only 2 years matters little to many people. The fact they are here at all makes all the difference.

I think you had a bad day yesterday and you should chill out and maybe the ravens can win next year. :)

To answer vomessing,
there is a lot of hositility towards Nabozny, and Rambam would be wise to disassociate from him

that "tiny" little school employees many people in the Baltimore area and provides a superior education to 450 kids. from your comments it would seem that you would have benefited from such an education with Rabbi Wagner and Lubetsky.

So at least anon is honest enough to admit his personal bias that he did not admit in his first anon post.

From your anger and hatred anyone reading this sees the need for you to speak to your Rav on a lesson of loshon horah. Blogs are wonderful places to communicate but they do not trancend halacha.

Well, I certainly do not recall bashing the institution. That would be inappropriate and slightly irrelevant to the recruitment issue. While I understand the motivations for the effort and everything you are all including, I cannot help but feel embarrassed for the institution and our community as a whole. Do we really need that? Do we really want that? While I would love to see the school grow (for the sake of everyone I know there and what it has to offer the community and its children), a natural growth would probably be more effective. If we weren't an established community already I'd be comfortable with recruitment and "information sessions", but something about this one doesn't seem right.
Does anyone know how the event went?

"If we weren't an established community already I'd be comfortable with recruitment and information sessions"

That is a pretty self righteous comment. Everyday new people move into to Baltimore for all sorts of reasons and they enhance a community with their addition and who are we to decide we are already established. I welcome new members and they can feel being a part of the Baltimore "established" community any day for me.

"Well, I certainly do not recall bashing the institution."

Whio needs recall? You are likely the sole opinion who would read what you wrote and not see bashing as a motivation.

In any case, many schools like people like you "who don't deny they bash their schools" while doing it. I hope you avail yourself to discover them...

Having worked at Rambam, I understand where this effort is coming from. Despite the fact that Rambam has an excellent track record at keeping kids religiously involved during the turbulent teenage years, most parents don't have the guts to consider it for their children, even when it is clear that it is a better fit, than the more yeshivish options. I find it sad and pathetic that even people who are yeshivish in externals only, refuse to consider what there kids really need. TA and BY are wondeful for some, but they do not begin to approach Rambam in dealing with kids who are not fully engaged in the world of frumkeit. I do not know whether the Teaneck recruitment will bear fruit, but to look at it cynically and blame Barry Nabozny, is simply absurd. Rabbi Lubetski is a thoughtful and creative mechanech and the community would do well to get know him.

Very well stated Rabbi Sommer. Like every school Rambam has parents who bring much baggage with them and will use any forum they can to get their venom out.They tarnish themselves (even in their denial that is their goal) but the majority of parents in any school see through these personalties. They would be better to sit down with a Rav to vent and get a dose of halachic propriety which is supposed to be a reason they even send their children to a yeshiva. Don't hold your breath though.

Regarding the issue of recruiting prospective families (as brought up by sevenfor16)…

As someone who works in a NY area “established” Modern Orthodox HS in an equally established community, I just wanted to point out that, no matter how great your institution (or community) is, recruitment is absolutely vital to the general success of the school, and towards ensuring that you will continue to attract students/families of the highest caliber.

This doesn’t just mean sending out flyers or brochures. This includes open houses, countless follow up phone calls, parlor meetings in local communities, etc. etc.

Parents and students need to see that you are personally interested in having them attend your school. This general approach is taken by every successful school in the New York area that I can think of.

Moreover, as a transplanted “Out of Towner” myself, I am very sensitive towards the typical NY perception of communities out of the tri state area, which is typically marked by simple ignorance. I have spent a lot of time in Baltimore and I echo the sentiments that have been written earlier that it is a wonderful community with many things that would be attractive to young NY families. This has to be actively and tirelessly promoted up here though, and IMHO this meeting is a great first step.

Just my 2 cents.

So, RDE- you coming down to teach at YR?

What..you think I would go OUT OF TOWN???

Just kidding. Who knows? Baltimore is one of my favorite communities...

How can you call it a conflict when school professional business parent volunteers work together with their schools that benefit one another. It goes on all the time with catering, etc.

Because when I volunteer my services, I don't push my business along with it. I don't take my business cards and throw them on the table when I walk in. I'm *not* marketing my ability to provide a service to future customers either - I'm helping the institution in question by providing goods and/or services that I have the ability to do quietly, without fanfare. Period.

The caterers don't give the dinners for free- they probably charge a reduced price. In this case they are getting paid, and the school acknowledges their generosity.

Printers of the journals - they are getting paid for their work. It's nice if they cut a discount.

Big difference IMHO. I don't have any kids at Rambam but they have their own reputation and should build on it on their own merit.

Have no idea your occupation and for many people with various accupations what you write sounds good to me. However, if one has an occupation that compliments and can work in tandem with enhancing, and raising essential dollars for their respective schools, and they don't hand out their cards on every occasion possible where benefiting their school will also benefit them, shame on that parent. If every parent used your logic and unfortunately too many probably do, their schools that they say they love (or likely do not say often) have to find students and needed funding without their help and teeter on financial tzaris perpetually.

In this case, who will get the better end of the deal, the agent with the 6% commission per $350-400K sale ($21-24K), or the school struggling to make ends meet with a full tuition per student of $8-$10K?

There are many opportunities for businesses to partner with schools so that both benefit. Let's take the ubiquitous Chinese auctions. Perfect example of an excellent complimentary partnership (except the 1 vendor who I saw donated 1 lb of cookies to one of the recent auctions, a definite OIB). The vendor gets a "feel good" exposure and patronization, and the school benefits from $$$.

That is not the case here. If you look at how other communities and schools market themselves in the Yated, JO, JP etc. , you don't see branding involved. Harvard, Yale and MIT attract students because of the quality of their education, not on the offerings of the local McDonald's or housing unit rentals. I don't see why Rambam can't market themselves the same way.

The only people who would justify a measuring stick to determine what amount of money a parent should be able to make to justify them helping their school make money are very bitter and overly jealous dudes.

If someone makes even $100k while helping his school draw new students what rational, caring, and non jealous person would go to a blog and spend time hurting such a person? You would probably also "know how much each person donates to their schools" and justify attacks that based on your knowledge of their worth "why did they only donate 100k instead of 1mil?" Jealousy and bitterness drive people crazy.

Additionally how sad that people like you do not leave it up to the people who run their schools to understand what they need to do to raise money and what deals they work out without criticism.

This idea that Rambam is doing sounds very big leagues in potential and others no doubt will copy. You with your jealousy and bitterness should donate your 1lb of cookies to your school and leave it up to the schools to work with their serious, supportive and caring parents on ways to survive.

Reb Chaim,

Excuse me.

I am *not* attacking anyone, nor am expressing bitterness.

Please re-read my posts, I am just asking questions and pointing out facts.

Period.

You are making assumptions about me and my environment, especially with your last post.

If there are any other institutions that have employed such partnerships, please post with name and community.

What parents want to do to support their schools is their call, not mine. I can't change anyone, including you. I know what I do. Plus, I'm quite "sameach bechelki", thank you.

Cheers.

Reb Anonymous,

I have never met a jealous and bitter person who has ever admitted it. Join the club.

Your comments throughout this blog speaks so loudly your denial is "so what else is new....."

Well, at least we know you're not expressing yourself in a cantankerous and bitter way.

Since you are resorting to mudslinging, name calling and personal attacks, I'm done here.

So much for intelligent dialog.

Good luck, and eat a cookie or two to calm down.

Regardless of the extent of this particular real estate agent's 'partnership' with the school, isn't having him present at this meeting simply a practical move? The school representatives speak about all of the positive elements of the school, and perhaps even the community.

Prospective parents get interested, but they would like to find out more. What's the tuition? How many kids in the class? What's the community like? How many shuls? How much do homes cost?

Well, instead of letting parents leave the meeting having to go on their own to research homes, you have someone right there that can answer their questions in a real and concrete fashion. Who honestly cares if he makes his living there? It is totally and completely in the school's best interest to have presenters there that can make the possibility of moving to Baltimore as attractive and real as possible.

It's generally very difficult to 'nudge' New Yorkers to head out of town. Rambam is playing it smart by making the presentation as comprehensive as it can.

I agree with you, RDE, but to clarify what (I believe) Anomymous' issue is is that there are other (frum) real estate agents in Baltimore (who may or may not have anything to do with the school) and by having this particular one go to this meeting and handing out his card, it isn't giving any of the other agents a chance with these future Baltimoreans.

yes, these people CAN do research and choose to use a different real estate agent but like you said, this makes it easier for everyone.

I think that is what the real issue here is. To echo. anonymous' thoughts, Rambam would be happy to get these people to move here as either mechanchim or students, but the real estate agent that they are choosing to bring with them will be benefitting incredibly if the people do move down here and use him (and they probably will because he was able to make himself known to them at the meeting).

I am not saying anything either way about this particular real estate agent versus any other ones in the community (and I don't think this is the forum to do that either), but my hope is that YR went to all of the other agents in the community and approached them as well and this agent was chosen in a fair way.

Reading these from top to bottom I find it comical that anonymous thinks Chaim is name calling when anonymous's raison d'etre that started the topic was attacking a single real estate agent that he obviously has a personal grievance with while saying he was having a dialogue.

As to anon2 I agree with others mentioned here that if the agent who went with their school to help sell the community was a parent and financial supporter of that school why in the world must it be opened up to other agents who may not have supported that school.

This whole topic has turned into a seemingly large expression by some people or person to attack this Nabozny guy.

Pretty sad reading Greg. I hope you have less vindictive bloggers coming in the future.

The first 2 anonymous posts about Nabozny belonged to me, I got mussar from Chaim and stopped posting my feelings, irregardless of my personal feelings I realize posting them was not productive. The other posts belonged to someone else who I think made some good points and Chaim mistakenly associated them with me, just wanted to clear that up.